Shakesville - Latest Comments in Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

the crystal shard — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:42:55 -0000

Thank you, TinaH!!!

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

grrzilla — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:13:12 -0000

She raised the roof off the place and I cried I was so moved. The negative pundits can kiss my ass.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

chingona — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:01:34 -0000

I thought it was a great speech, dignified, rhetorically moving, politically deft. I am sure it was a bittersweet moment for her. I was rather dismayed to hear one commenter (Michael Beschloss, who can be an ass, but still) after the speech saying she didn't do enough to "disavow" her earlier criticisms of Obama as too inexperienced. I haven't heard anyone ask Joe Biden to disavow his own, similar criticisms. I think any adult understands that in politics, when you're running against someone, you go after their weaknesses, and if you lose and afterward decide to support the winner, you focus on their strengths. But he seemed to want her to grovel. Not only would groveling have destroyed the dignity of the speech, it would have been politically pointless. The political purpose of her speech was to acknowledge her supporters, thank them and call them to participate in the next stage of this election as equals. Groveling and asking forgiveness for daring to run and criticize her opponent would have completely undermined that message.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

Resistance Fighter Astraea — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:07:50 -0000

But Clinton doesn't feel that way about PUMAs. My sense is that she really does get it, she really does understand where they're coming from, and she really does sympathize.

Exactly. I thought her quote from Tubman expressed that, too.

I have to admit I haven't followed Clinton all that closely before in that I haven't seen a lot of her speeches before the primary, so a lot of my impressions of her were second-hand and based on votes. But it seems like this fight has reawakened her feminism and her passion for her causes. Not that she hasn't fought for them before in her time as Senator, but it seemed like the need to be a politician sort of overshadowed her passion for a while.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

aunt pickle — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:00:10 -0000

I loved it- I loved Michelle Obama on Monday (eau-de-50s or no, I was so impressed with her and could picture her as and INCREDIBLE first lady) and I loved Hillary last night- "Sisterhood of the Travelling Pantsuits"- ha!

love it!

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

CE — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:55:48 -0000

I didn't see that at all. She talked to her supporters with the respect they deserve, something the fauxgressives can't seem to understand.

I agree with you, Astraea. (Shocker!) I've never seen Clinton adopt the scornful, scolding tone with her supporters to which so many in the fauxgressive blogosphere are addicted. She made a case, couched it in respectful terms, and tried to influence her supporters - not bully them. In fact, she was so good at it that she almost convinced me.

The fauxgressives are "seeing" that because it's what they want to see. It validates their feelings of smug superiority over all those silly wimminz who won't just shut up, get in line and get them some coffee already. But Clinton doesn't feel that way about PUMAs. My sense is that she really does get it, she really does understand where they're coming from, and she really does sympathize. I think she has far too much respect for the people who supported her to lecture or bully them as the blogger boyz and the fun folks at Mostly Shitty 'N Biased Coverage do.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

TinaH — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:43:08 -0000

(((Crystal Shard)))

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

the crystal shard — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:29:13 -0000

*wipes tears* I knew she made a change in my life the day...this is going to sound odd. I have chats with myself. And by "myself," I mean a version of myself that knows better than I do, knows how to take care of me, gives me the advice that I need to keep going in life. (My voice--I physically mouth both sides of the conversation.) Well, this "self" has usually been this vaguely male being, probably because I've been handed a male god since birth through the mainstream culture. One day I woke up and that second self had changed--I was conversing with Hillary! There she was, telling me I can do and be anything I want to be!

Hillary broke my oversoul glass ceiling! WOOHOO!!

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

Resistance Fighter Astraea — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:57:06 -0000

I'm seeing a lot of comments from the fauxgressives about how she was smacking down PUMA's and how the PUMA's should just shut up now. I didn't see that at all. She talked to her supporters with the respect they deserve, something the fauxgressives can't seem to understand. And at most sites I've completely lost track of who they're actually talking about when they refer to PUMA's. I suppose it should be a case of "if the shoe doesn't fit." But since they label any Obama critic who happens to be a woman a PUMA, I can't help but think they think anyone with doubts should just STFU, and that this speech tells us to. yay democracy.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

zuzu — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:46:12 -0000

As for the speech: damn, that was good. I'm still reserving judgment on Obama until I hear from him -- and in particular, hear some specifics about his plans and policies. Not that it matters who I vote for, since I live in New York, and if Obama needs my vote to carry New York, then he's in bigger trouble than I can help him with.

Also turned off the TV before the pundits came on. Though I had CBS on because I'm a dork and can't find C-SPAN on my cable guide, and I SOOOOO wanted to put a tissue through the screen and wipe that stray glob of mascara off Katie Couric's face. The makeup people at CBS hate her, apparently.

As I'm poking through the news this morning, I'm seeing a lot of "Great speech! But did she really mean it? And it's still her job to unify the party! And What About Bill? Will he make it All About HIm tonight?"

Clearly, she can't win.

Today's also the roll call. I'm hearing different things about this even today. There will be a secret ballot, and only the state totals will be announced; or it's going to be cut short; or it won't go forward.

OFFS. Don't make a show of being afraid of democracy, especially not after that RBC meeting where it was clear they'd determined the outcome before they even got there. Don't make a show of treating the first viable female candidate for president differently than men who didn't even do as well as she did. And for Maude's sake, don't deny her delegates a chance to record their historic vote, especially the day after the anniversary of the certification of the 19th Amendment.

Remember, folks: the Republicans have eyes! They can see all this very well for themselves.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

zuzu — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:30:09 -0000

I simply find it disheartening to watch Clinton fans tear Obama apart when he is clearly the lesser of evils.

That's why I'm voting Cthulhu in '08. Why settle for the lesser evil?

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

Resistance Fighter Astraea — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:41:34 -0000

I blubbed through the whole thing, starting with the intro from her daughter. And I'm tearing up again after Lola's comment. What an amazing, amazing speech.

One thing I really loved: She actually sounded like a progressive!

I know she's been fighting for proper recognition at the convention. Was the chance to make last night's speech one of the things she was fighting for?

I don't recall hearing anything certain about what the Obama camp wanted, but I know there were a lot of people who didn't think she should get a prominent spot to speak.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

rhiain — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:18:11 -0000

I just processed what it as about Clinton's speech that hit home so hard for me... this is the first time I've ever felt positively connected to her.

I'm only 24, so the Clinton family has been background noise for me for most of my life. I guess I never really got past Hilary as an abstract concept, except in the context of this election. I've felt kinship with her in the last nineteen months, but mostly in response to misogynistic attacks--I could see that she and I had shared experiences but they were, ya know, experiences that suck.

Last night, though, I felt that my connection with her was a positive thing. I've never been a huge supporter of hers--defender, yes, but not supporter--but I think last night was the first time I really understand where her supporters were getting their fervor.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

rhiain — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 05:54:38 -0000

I know she's been fighting for proper recognition at the convention. Was the chance to make last night's speech one of the things she was fighting for?

Because... seriously, that was beautiful. I know it won't silence all her critics, by any means, but it was worth fighting for, and hopefully at least a few of her detractors will see that.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

allex — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 05:18:40 -0000

It is a travesty that this woman is not the Democrat nominee. She is brilliant, Obama is very definitely not.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

ellenbrenna — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:30:07 -0000

Great speech. Not a fan of Hillary myself but it was a great speech. (I have said in the past that I hate her but this moment definitely shifted my opinion of her)

I hate that it is nearly impossible for anyone to vote their conscience in our political system and still achieve their goals. I really hope that this primary galvanizes everyone to change the nomination process for the better and/or work for third party candidates for local, state and congressional elections. Some of the ire directed at both Hillary and Barack seemed to stem from not just their behavior or their personalities or their policies (or sexism or racism) but from our utter lack of real choices and the skewed nature of the nomination process.

A centrist with a penchant for religiousity and a strange love of "free market" economists and a centrist who voted for the Iraq War do not generally inspire me and certainly do not present much of a contrast to Republicans despite the historic nature of both their campaigns. I watched Shirley Chisolm 72 the other night and it made me wonder if we should imagine more for ourselves politically, stop trying to be so overly strategic and start being more determined. Maybe we need to lose more frequently but lose well. I ramble and I apologize but the speech was inspiring and I am processing it still.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

PizzaDiavola — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:11:37 -0000

because this--this wondering and thinking and finally deciding on your own vote--this is what the suffragettes dreamed for all of us, eighty-eight years ago.

To be a woman, with a vote.

Okay, Lola, *you* made me cry. I was well on the way there with the video clip, and then I saw that. To be a woman, with a vote. Indeed.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

lola — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:52:14 -0000

What a stunning night--so many perfect little moments--starting with the best intro video ever (The usual sentimental hackery transformed into a woman pride parade, a velvety call to arms--and a whole segment devoted to her laughter--take that, cackle-asses). And the jawdropping graciousness of showing a photo of Obama over the line "To anyone who has been counted out, but refused to be knocked out" (could she be any more generous? To burnish his image--to help put a bright gloss on his political mythology--during what was her own moment to shine.)

And her speech--rising and falling and flowing as easily as breathing--all the power and charisma they've refused to credit her with so many times before, finally so evident it couldn't be ignored (and so sweet to see pundits left speechless, stumbling to find a way to actually praise Hillary after fifteen years of sneering, raw contempt and sexist snark). And invoking Stephanie & Harriet & Seneca Falls & the line of womanhood down through the ages--what a great marriage of content and delivery--a message of pride in being female, instead of the usual shame porridge regularly doled out.

I didn't cry (I was cheering her on, too blazed up to weep) until CNN interviewed an African American woman who was a Hillary delegate; Malveaux herself was shaken when she ended the interview, touched by the raw emotion and loss and sense of pride in this woman's voice as she said to Malveaux, "As you rip Hillary's speech to pieces--and you know you people in the press will try--you know what you saw tonight. This was Presidential. Hillary was Presidential. And I don't know what to do about that".

Her voice was careful and quiet (she was clearly holding herself together so hard for the cameras, the weight of it all very heavy on her) and even with the tears, it still felt fitting, because this--this wondering and thinking and finally deciding on your own vote--this is what the suffragettes dreamed for all of us, eighty-eight years ago.

To be a woman, with a vote.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

Flewellyn — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:48:23 -0000

This is about 90% of what I needed to convince me to vote for Obama after all.

Now if he can just do that last 10%*, and indicate he's not tone-deaf about women's issues...

* A man benefits where a woman does the lion's share of the work. That's new, isn't it?

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

Melissa McEwan — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:29:10 -0000

I really, really hope that when it is Obama's turn to speak on Thursday, he will reach out particularly to women, that he'll pick up where Clinton left off. I hope he won't try to erase her, or "move on." I want to know that he has the kind of courage and class and sensitivity that she has -- that he can be *my* leader in her stead.

Repeated, just for emphasis.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

PizzaDiavola — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:00:53 -0000

Seriously, can we please not do this again now?

Will do, sorry Liss.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

Brian S (formerly Incertus) — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:41:18 -0000

Incertus, thanks for the h/t considering I'm pretty much a lurker. ;-)

Not at all. Credit where it's due.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

Melissa McEwan — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:34:46 -0000

I do however believe that all of the threats about abstaining from voting or voting for McCain as a lash back because she did not get elected is not a way forward.

Seriously, can we please not do this again now? Please?

I'm just exhausted of it. I can't take it anymore.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

Michael (cannablog) — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:32:26 -0000

Extraordinary, tremendous speech. Hillary Clinton has said and done what she said she would, and united the Democratic party behind Barack Obama. "No way, no how, no McCain." Not everyone will be satisfied, but not everyone is Democratic, after all. We all have our different opinions on many subjects, but at the end of the day we need to fix America and we cannot let the Republicans have another four years to complete its destruction.

Re: Ladies and Gentleman, Senator Hillary Clinton

Guest — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:18:24 -0000

Incertus, thanks for the h/t considering I'm pretty much a lurker. ;-)