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I find it fascinating (where fascinating = completely bloody infuriating) that these ideas will probably only now get a hearing at long last because the frame has switched from "things women need, irrespective of their circumstances" to "things that will ensure women make more babies."
Grrr. Argh. Yes.
Oy w/ the poodles already.
And also, spot fucking on.
On one hand, GREAT! Finally! Let's do it! Let's get mobilized and get those much needed services to the women who need them and want them.
On the other... dagnabit! This will now get used to highlight how "sensible" anti-choicers are and how, in the end, they are the ones who really care about women.
!
It's like there is a huge disconnect between the Generals and the troops!
It really is the gaypocalypse!
And a pox on Chaput and his supporters for demonizing those who have, ya know, shown a little compassion. (Wasn't there some important figure in Christianity who emphasized compassion? Can't quite put my finger on it.....)
Well, but that's all in keeping with cutting-edge GOP theory, right? (Said theory being most easily summed up as, "I got mine. Sucks to be you!")
Shorter: good for them. They can sit on my bus - and even pretend they're driving! - just so long as they leave my ovums alones.
EXACTLY. It's hair-tearingly frustrating.
So sometimes my brain messes with me. The first time I read this I saw "All it takes is seeing a little bit of gray matter in the world."
Give them one of those Maggie Simpson soothers and a fake steering wheel. Wheeeeee! Toot toot!
Who (probably) takes the credit = frustrating
The actual legislation (if passed) = progress!
It's amazing to me that so many anti-choicers have really never thought about the real circumstances that can lead to abortion. My husband had an intersting conversation with a self-proclaimed pro-life dude outside class the other day. He (husband) said he could practically see the light bulb go on in the other guy's head when he realized women have abortions for other reasons besides just hating babies.
Yay! Liss is back!
Other than that -- A-fucking-men.
So sometimes my brain messes with me. The first time I read this I saw "All it takes is seeing a little bit of gray matter in the world."
And the first time I read it, I thought about grey hair -- as in, all it takes is a little time and learning and wisdom, and you come to the compassionate conclusion.
Oh, that it were true.
that's okay, i read "All it takes is seeing a little bit of GAY in the world".
prop 8 has me seeing rainbows everywhere! (in a good way, obviously!)
I feel unable to complete a sentence, I'm so frustrated. I have seen so many women and men on so many feminist sites yelling at the top of their lungs for a compassionate and truly comprehensive way of making it easier for women to have access to reproductive services, i.e. birth control, safe and legal abortions, pre-natal care and adoption services/child care services.
And suddenly certain members of anti-abortion groups swoop in and act like this is news just because the winds are changing? I know it's spiteful of me to feel frustrated. I should be happy that there seems to be some re-examining of priorities, but I am so effing sick of feminism and feminists getting "ye ol' pat on the head" once again.
Indeed. I meant to link that in the post then it fell right out of my head -- thanks!
I'm torn on this. My biggest fear is that there will be all new programs for women and women's health (yay!) but since they are coming from the right, they will be followed quickly with "now there's no excuse for keeping abortion legal" (*shiver*) and, even worse, "now there's no excuse to not breed" (ATWOOD!)
The rhetoric and reason MEAN something -- not just as a way to get to the desired end, but as slow, step-by-step building blocks:
*we did action A for reason A
*action A is good
THEREFORE
*reason A is justified and
THEREFORE
*so is action B
where reason A = make more babies and action B = further oppression of women.
On the other hand, is this fear any reason to deny women who need it the services they require NOW? I couldn't honestly vote against it, no matter how scared it makes me.
LOL at this rate I'll be a conspiracy theorist by the end of the year!
When the time comes, we'll take credit. Loud and wide.
Those who want to hear us, will.
Those who don't, never would no matter what. So fuck 'em.
I definitely won't be forgetting the groundwork as well as the unsung programs that did this kind of thing before. Hopefully those programs get expanded and more developed because of this, finally!
How long do you think it will take before history is rewritten
I'm thinking 6 to 8 months. Just a wild ass guess.
What I would love to see/hear with that vote:
Congress: All in favor of providing comprehensive health services to women and children. "Aye". Bill passed.
All feminists around the world: It's about fucking time! Sheesh!
On the one hand - I'm glad that this is happening; but I'm going to be REALLY PISSED if feminists don't get credit. I've already resigned myself to being REALLY PISSED.
I am NOT saying that we shouldn't do things like make it easier for women to care for themselves and their child, I think we definitely should. I'm saying that I'll feel more at ease once health care can't be used as an incentive (because everyone has comprehensive insurance and access to quality health care). I hope I'm not raining on the parade, I really am excited about this, and I think that the sooner these things are put in place, the better. Like most other people here, I see them as a good step forward (but still a step).
In fact, I vividly recall being in a Bible study where we were talking about abortion (despite the fact that abortion is mentioned nowhere in the Bible) when I was about 15 and suggesting that we think about why women have abortions. You could have heard a fucking pin drop in that room. The (male, natch) leader quickly returned the conversation to the real issue - what terrible sinners all women who have abortions are. Fuckers.
Absolutely! Make sure that when the reasoning goes down, there's no room to push a "but we are taking care of our wimmen so theyz can make us sum babeez" agenda. But make sure it goes down ;).
I'd be a little more comfortable allowing them onto this feminist women's health and well-being bus if they were also talking about how to stop rape and incest from happening, plus how to guarantee that all women have guaranteed and affordable access to their choice of birth control. No one should have to be pregnant against her will.
Shakesville actually could probably take a little bit of credit on this minor, yet substantially large victory. To get closed-minded individuals to change their mind on ANYTHING that they've been closed about for eons is quite a feat. Here's to larger and even more substantial victories!
Can the left not do that, too? We made them concede ground, praise Maude, and we'll make them concede more very soon. (Or at least we could try to assume that we'll see this happen again. I know the Democratic leadership could be better on a lot of things, but they, the right, would assume bigger things were coming. We could do that, too.) Not only that, but their side is developing some stress fractures, which at least theoretically makes them easier to drag along in the future. Yes, this could be used coercively, but surely it would help more women than it would hurt, right? Am I way off base in this?
And suddenly certain members of anti-abortion groups swoop in and act like this is news just because the winds are changing? I know it's spiteful of me to feel frustrated. I should be happy that there seems to be some re-examining of priorities, but I am so effing sick of feminism and feminists getting "ye ol' pat on the head" once again.
This is why I hate the "prodigal son" story in the Bible and the related "Only Nixon could go to China" variation.
All you folks who were right from day one are not to be trusted! Only those of us who have consistently gotten it wrong, ruined the lives of millions and have FINALLY seen the light can be trusted! Such BS!
This is why they say politics makes strange bedfellows...
Stan.
That's what I get for commenting at work!
Right on.
I live in Costa Rica, where even In Vitro is illegal, nevermind abortion, so I share your definition of fascinating.
Hopefully, though, they won't still try to ban birth control...Bush already restricted it...
Despite the ways it could go (offering more services as a way to eliminate legal abortion) I'm not terribly worried about that at the moment. Mainly because, on a whole, the US is pro-choice. Those of us who support choice are (barely) a majority, and I have a good deal of faith that the public mentality will stay that way.
Also, those who want to eliminate abortion outright on the anti-choice side are actively fighting against this expansion of services tactic for no stated reason other than "it doesn't end abortion." The groups that truly want abortion gone, completely and absolutely, are not behind this shift in focus.
As far as who gets credit...we can always just do our damndest to be as loud as possible. Or (and I don't like this idea, ornery girl that i am, but it may work better) we can be ::grits teeth:: gracious ::gags:: and embrace these groups for joining the fight finally.
I'm thinkin' that'd be a resounding YES. They can *try* all they want to take undue credit. Let's not let 'em succeed.
Don't feel too bad; it was highly entertaining.
I've never heard of the New Towns and the Google search I just did wasn't too successful. Could you point me in the right direction?
I enjoyed it as well.
Obama’s name is has 6 letters in each name…666 see!
She might have been confused, given that "Barack Hussein Obama" is 18 letters and three words. So that's not much of a stretch, although her stubbornness was still highly amusing -- kinda like poking fun at the kid who worships "Satin"...
The problem with that kind of numerology is that it opens up all sorts of possibilities. There's the obvious "666", and of course any combination that adds up to 18 (because that's three 6's!) is suspect, as we'll also see later.
But then you can really reach and say that "999" is just as bad, because it's "666" upside down!. And once you discount 9's, you have to throw out all sorts of numbers that add up to 9 in some manner, such as 18 -- hey, wait a minute -- 27, 36, 45, 54, 63, 72, 81, etc., etc.
As long as we're superstitious, let's toss "13" in the mix. 13 is a prime number so there aren't too many things we can do with that; I would point out that "Barack Hussein" is 13 letters, boogedy boogedy!
We can knock out about every other even number because the Japanese tradtionally associate the number "4" with death.
My point is, given enough operations, you can make almost any number mean anything or tie it to anything. As far as I can tell, the only safe number is a prime number (well, except for that unlucky 13...)
Isn't it funny that when you compare statistics a consistent trend is: the more available and legal abortion is the fewer abortions are actually carried out?
It might be because virtually all teenagers in Scandinavia actually know what sex is, where babies and STDs come from and how to have safe sex, it might be because social security, women's and worker's rights mean that you can chose to have a baby without losing your job... no, it's gotta be the first thing: Adults and teenagers are not afraid and alienated of sex. Before you hit puberty you know 2 things: that sex is natural when respect and comfort is involved, and that you always-always use a condom. I think it might be that simple. But having access to abortion should something go wrong is also a factor in lower abortion-frequency, probably because it helps remove the ignorance-creating atmosphere of fear and taboos around sex. It makes it safe.
Legal abortion is one essential element in creating an atmosphere where sex can be safe, where teens are not (okay: less) afraid of buying condoms, less afraid of letting their parents know, and where they know exactly how you protect yourself. But also that if you do get pregnant you are safe no matter which choice you make.
Unfortunately the people in the US who claim they are against abortion (they are not, they're just against safe and legal abortions) are also against each and every one of the things that actually reduce the need for abortions. They are against sex-ed - actually they want to increase sexual ignorance and misconceptions - they are against safe sex (phyiscally and mentally safe), they want to prevent the availability of contraception, and they are generally not enthusiastic about very important abortion-reducing factors such as universal health care, women worker's rights, parent-workers rights, free day care etc.
All in all: the anti-choice movement are not only against the choice you have to make when you do become pregnant. They are against people having the choice of whether to get pregnant or not in the first place. Seriously - free abortion actually helps reduce abortions. And in any case, people are gonna have sex and with the anti-choice & anti-safety & anti-sex-awareness movement they will get pregnant and with the US "social" system where employees have no legal rights, they will get abortions - whether they are legal or not.
People have always gotten abortions, and they always will. Making them free and legal just means making them safe. And making sex safe and comfortable means... fewer abortions. The anti-choice movement is an anti-sex-awareness movement and therefore by consequence a movement for more unwanted pregnancies. If they actually wanted fewer "killed babies" (aborted fetuses) they would actually be doing the opposite of every thing they do.
Answer: It's already been done. See: Saletan, Lord. His columns in slate about this a few years back practically made me throw my laptop against the wall. He said all these things like he was the first person on earth to have such a brilliant solution. He did this in a bunch of articles, but here's one random example of the first thing that turned up when I googled Saletan abortion compromise:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar...
Note how he acts like the abortion-rights supporters need someone to tell them to advocate for the things we already damned well were advocating for.
The birth rate question was not the only factor in the planning of the New Towns, of course, but it was an acknowledged factor.
I've been a TA for a class that touched on this. :)
I still identify as pro-life (with the caveat that abortion needs to remain safe and LEGAL--'cause, you know, pro-life is supposed to mean you care about everyone's life) and yep, this is the kind of stuff I've been arguing for for years. And you're right, very few people in the organized "pro-life movement" care to hear about it. It's easier to demonize women than it is to criticize the government and work for social justice.
BTW, Ophelia, I had a similar experience in a Bible study class, back in my Catholic days--not about abortion but about women's rights in general. The (male, of course) teacher was getting really pissed at me, but fortunately one of my favorite nuns happened to come into the room to get something and backed me up with the most beautifully offhand dismissal of misogynist crap in the Bible as the teacher silently fumed. I wanted to hug her.
But all the same, I am goddamn glad you are back. I loved this post. Thank you for all you do.
Maybe Americans have better foetal recipes.
You use ketchup or gravy?
But then I start thinking...this is kind of a retreat on their part. They've been fighting us on the issue of providing better health care for so long, to see them back off, well. It's quite something.
Is it really a victory for us, or merely a tactical retreat on their part? I say, the difference is one of PR. Let's claim it as a victory for our side, and put them on the defensive.
I'm a Brit; we curry them.
My thoughts upon reading the quote about how poverty clearly affects abortion rates: ...and you're just now figuring this out?
My thoughts upon reading the guy saying that, well, actually, we don't really understand how poverty affects abortion rates: *headdesk headdesk headdesk*
that's okay, i read "All it takes is seeing a little bit of GAY in the world".
I'm so glad it wasn't just me. XD